Became a Dynasty Defender: Jun 3, 2002 11:49:19 GMT -5
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Post by ruppsrunt on Mar 13, 2020 19:11:15 GMT -5
10% of employed people in the USA are union--- about 99% of the WORKERS are not union!! www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdfwhy would any person with self value participate willingly in a thug run union? answer--very few willingly!!! rr
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Dec 24, 2008 12:00:13 GMT -5
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Post by Streeter on Mar 13, 2020 20:43:38 GMT -5
AS per usual you got no clue kid
answered in a different thread but pasted here
No
the VAST majority of workers would rather be in a Union than not. Your saying here 90% of people would rather work for less money and less to no voice / job protection ? Yep 90% of people don't want those things huh?
Most states these days have gone right to work - basically due to corporate control ( corporate hates Unions they hold them accountable and they pay their employees more money) AND the GOP who answer to corporations. GOP has killed unions in this country by making state by state go right to work as soon as they get a GOP Gov.
I know you love the word FACTS - you rarely use them but dammit you love to say the word don't ya.
I cannot speak for Govt or state unions - just the Const. Trade unions in chicago
option 1
Electrician 50 dollars an hour ...... plus medical , Pension,vacation, and Annuity comes to about 92 dollars that the contractor is billed per hour for a journeyman Carpenter 48 dollars an hour Fitter 53 dollars an hour Operator 51 dollars an hour (tower crane guys get alot more) Laborer 43 dollars an hour
option 2
NON Union Tradesman average about 25 dollars an hour with bare minimum healthcare and NO retirement.
Tell me -- Are you saying 90% of America would prefer option 2 there? LMAO
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Sept 8, 2001 20:59:02 GMT -5
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Post by Katman on Mar 14, 2020 7:55:55 GMT -5
I was in a Union in 1983. I made 4.85 an hour and had to pay 10 a week in Union dues.
Buck fifty over minimum wage. Whoop de do. The SAME buck 50 I was over minimum wage when the company joined the Union.
I didnt like it then. As it turned out our company EH Electronics only joined the union so we could be allowed to work on union job sites. I was installing interconnect replacement phone systems to replace South Central Bell systems at the time.
I left that job, never went back to union thuggery after that and here I am retired, happy, plenty of money, and thinking how crappy that was back then.
Today we dont need unions. We need to build an economy with so many jobs that we can have plenty of choices to do what we love to do.
End Unions...Build a bustling economy and let your work skills be the main thing.
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Jan 9, 2006 11:37:14 GMT -5
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Post by houstoncat on Mar 14, 2020 8:36:03 GMT -5
Problems are not the union but the leadership in the unions they are corrupt and to an extent they control who works and doesnt. At its core unions drive up wages and improve benefits for non union professonals yeah there sre issue protracted strkes where the money loss is never recovered and such but in mysomwhat limited experiance early on i saw good benefits
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Apr 16, 2003 15:11:35 GMT -5
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Post by JD on Mar 14, 2020 9:28:51 GMT -5
Every contract has a management clause.
Weak management just blames the union for their inabilities to manage.
Of course there’s been some corrupt union leaders. Very, very few. But they need to be outed and removed.
But there is far more corrupt management. Just look at our current president. The very picture of corruption.
As unions get weaker those at the top get richer and the middle class pays for it.
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Jun 3, 2002 11:49:19 GMT -5
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Post by ruppsrunt on Mar 14, 2020 9:48:26 GMT -5
Always great to see union organizers LOSE when attempting to foist their corrupt practices onto unaware WORKERS!!
Right to WORK states prevent destruction of companies by carpetbagger union THUGS.
rr
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Apr 16, 2003 15:11:35 GMT -5
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Post by JD on Mar 14, 2020 10:14:18 GMT -5
Always great to see union organizers LOSE when attempting to foist their corrupt practices onto unaware WORKERS!! Right to WORK states prevent destruction of companies by carpetbagger union THUGS. rr Right to work does nothing of the sort. It is named well, I'll give them that. But it hasn't been proven to do anything but take right away from workers. And in right to work states where the place is organized there's usually less than 2% of the workforce that choses to not be members. And that would be fine except the law says the union has to represent those scabs anyway. So they are just like ticks hanging on to suck the blood out of the real workers. You simply do not know what you are talking about on this issue.
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Jun 3, 2002 11:49:19 GMT -5
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Post by ruppsrunt on Mar 14, 2020 10:49:41 GMT -5
I am always pleased to see the demise of a union. Ends the stranglehold on those willing to WORK, and not hide behind the "collective".
Those who PRODUCE get paid--those who pretend hide within the COLLECTIVE.
Steel worker unions destroyed the big steel mills. I saw it happen while providing support products to most all the big integrated steel mills in the US. Chicago/Gary area, Fontana California, Cleveland, Buffalo, Bethlehem pa, Bethlehem Maryland---US steel, Inland, bethlehem, Great Lakes--all of um. 1 working and 10 sitting and watching--over paid and too many benefits--non-competitive--all GONE!!
Aluminum industry in the northwest--GONE, graphite companies--Union Carbide, Carborundum, Great Lakes, Stackpole--GONE!
Integrated circuits and computer chips--motorola, fairchild, gone overseas.
UNIONs and their crazed demands, lazy job holders and offensive benefit packages destroyed manufacturing, with help from dumbdem REGULATIONS and TAXES the worst in the world.
yep--taxes, regulations and UNIONS destroyed manufacturing in this country.
rr
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Jun 3, 2002 11:49:19 GMT -5
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Post by ruppsrunt on Mar 14, 2020 10:53:05 GMT -5
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Jun 3, 2002 11:49:19 GMT -5
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Post by ruppsrunt on Mar 14, 2020 10:55:29 GMT -5
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Jun 3, 2002 11:49:19 GMT -5
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Post by ruppsrunt on Mar 14, 2020 10:59:22 GMT -5
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Mar 21, 2019 12:37:12 GMT -5
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Post by fiddlingone on Mar 14, 2020 13:47:40 GMT -5
IMO there was a time and a place for unions, but I think that time has past. I worked for 12 years as a union member at a gov plant. It was next to impossible to fire lazy workers. On the midnight shift, there were workers who would literally make a bed and sleep most of the shift and the company couldn't stop them. Some of their fellow union members were forced to carry their load. I saw a foreman come into the control room one day and tell a guy to do some specific thing that was going to involve hard physical labor. He told the foreman, "Look at these hands. They are not made for that kind of work." He did not do the work and there were no consequences. I'm sure all unions aren't that bad and maybe this was worse because it involved the gov, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth re unions.
As I've said before, everyone on all sides of the equation contributed to the loss of manufacturing in the USA.
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Apr 16, 2003 15:11:35 GMT -5
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Post by JD on Mar 14, 2020 13:55:57 GMT -5
IMO there was a time and a place for unions, but I think that time has past. I worked for 12 years as a union member at a gov plant. It was next to impossible to fire lazy workers. On the midnight shift, there were workers who would literally make a bed and sleep most of the shift and the company couldn't stop them. Some of their fellow union members were forced to carry their load. I saw a foreman come into the control room one day and tell a guy to do some specific thing that was going to involve hard physical labor. He told the foreman, "Look at these hands. They are not made for that kind of work." He did not do the work and there were no consequences. I'm sure all unions aren't that bad and maybe this was worse because it involved the gov, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth re unions. As I've said before, everyone on all sides of the equation contributed to the loss of manufacturing in the USA. There’s a management clause in every contract. No union can stop a company from managing their business. They can fire anyone they want. If that firing was a contract violation then the person would probably get their job back. Poor managers always blamed the union as the reason they didn’t do their jobs.
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Mar 21, 2019 12:37:12 GMT -5
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Post by fiddlingone on Mar 14, 2020 14:06:33 GMT -5
IMO there was a time and a place for unions, but I think that time has past. I worked for 12 years as a union member at a gov plant. It was next to impossible to fire lazy workers. On the midnight shift, there were workers who would literally make a bed and sleep most of the shift and the company couldn't stop them. Some of their fellow union members were forced to carry their load. I saw a foreman come into the control room one day and tell a guy to do some specific thing that was going to involve hard physical labor. He told the foreman, "Look at these hands. They are not made for that kind of work." He did not do the work and there were no consequences. I'm sure all unions aren't that bad and maybe this was worse because it involved the gov, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth re unions. As I've said before, everyone on all sides of the equation contributed to the loss of manufacturing in the USA. There’s a management clause in every contract. No union can stop a company from managing their business. They can fire anyone they want. If that firing was a contract violation then the person would probably get their job back. Poor managers always blamed the union as the reason they didn’t do their jobs. This was many years ago and involved a gov plant, so I don't know what standards were. I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "Close enough for gov work." You know more about union contracts than I do, but I know lazy people consistently got away with not working and guys like me carried their load and any time one of those guys got in some trouble, the union protected them.
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Became a Dynasty Defender: Apr 16, 2003 15:11:35 GMT -5
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Post by JD on Mar 14, 2020 14:34:47 GMT -5
There’s a management clause in every contract. No union can stop a company from managing their business. They can fire anyone they want. If that firing was a contract violation then the person would probably get their job back. Poor managers always blamed the union as the reason they didn’t do their jobs. This was many years ago and involved a gov plant, so I don't know what standards were. I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "Close enough for gov work." You know more about union contracts than I do, but I know lazy people consistently got away with not working and guys like me carried their load and any time one of those guys got in some trouble, the union protected them. I had a supervisor in the tire room tell me one time that he would "handle" a problem employee but the union won't let him. I was the local union president at the time. I guess the guy didn't know that? Anyway, I asked him what discipline he had tried to administer and which union steward had stopped him. He just gave me a blank look. So I asked again, "specifically what actions have you tried to take and been stopped?" He said, "well, none!". So I asked again, "how did anyone in the union stop you from doing nothing?". He said, "well, I guess they didn't". But that's how BS like that spreads. Had I not known better I would have probably repeated it away from work that we had a supervisor being stopped from disciplining a problem worker. I realize for the most part I'm talking to company men here. So I know the arguments. I understand company men hate unions. I know the hyperbole they put out. And they will say that "unions had a place and time but that time is passed". Hogwash!! We had a saying, more of a truism, when I was an organizer. 'Unions don't organize unions, management organizes unions'. I didn't really get that when I was new to organizing but after years of doing it I would tell the new people, unions don't organize unions, managers organize unions. We could not organize any facility where the workers were being treated fairly by management. Unions are not organized over money. Never have been and never will be. Nor was that ever the driving force. Due process is foundation. And those places that can't be organized because the company is being fair are being fair to keep the unions out. You let the whole idea of unions go away and those companies will not continue to be fair. It is very hard to organize also because the laws are stacked against the unions. But once people see thru that you almost never hear of a union being decertified by the workers. Why is that if the union is so bad? A "right to work" is a farce. It's a gift to management from corrupt politicians. It does away with majority rule. Something the union haters usually hang their hats on. It still hasn't worked out like they wanted. As I said in another thread, nationally less than 2% of workers that work in a union facility in a right to work state opt out of joining. And I don't have a problem with them not joining. If a person wants to be a scab then they can just be a scab. The problem I have the law is that the union has to represent the scabs just as if they were members.
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